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Post by amadeus on Feb 4, 2012 19:00:17 GMT -5
For the life of me, I don't know why there is no membership to the corporation. You have a group that calls themselves the board of directors, and you have 0 members.
If you are putting your hard earned money into the program, why aren't you entitled to membership in the group? It's not against the corporate rules, it's not an uncommon practice, and it will give every member a vote.
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Post by The 99 Declaration on Feb 4, 2012 19:34:33 GMT -5
we have hundreds of delegates
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Post by amadeus on Feb 4, 2012 19:48:21 GMT -5
hundreds of delegates that are not entitled to membership in the corporation. You have followers, donators, workers, committee people that never get to say what should be done because they have no vote on the issues that are tearing you apart from the inside.
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Post by forbesmb on Feb 4, 2012 19:53:24 GMT -5
Interesting point raised there.
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Post by hendrimike on Feb 5, 2012 12:04:52 GMT -5
If there were hundreds of members on the board, there would be a change in direction every week, imo.
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Post by hendrimike on Feb 5, 2012 12:05:53 GMT -5
Also, the committees make all decisions on the way things are done in their committee and then the chair reports progress to the board. All volunteers are allowed to serve on committees.
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Post by kammyc on Feb 5, 2012 13:21:03 GMT -5
Amadeus - how do you define membership?
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Post by amadeus on Feb 6, 2012 5:28:28 GMT -5
Membership is defined by having an equal vote in the approval of the organizational structure, the board of directors, the methods of approving membership itself. Every corporation has a charter, have you read this group's charter yet?
The number of members on the board of directors will not change. It should always be an odd number, and is dictated by NY law in this case. Membership within the group entitles you to vote on who those board members should be, it doesn't include you as a board member automatically. If that were the case, OWS could spend a few hundred dollars and take over the whole thing, lol.
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Post by forbesmb on Feb 6, 2012 8:11:30 GMT -5
Is there a link to the charter anywhere? I can find the mission statement, board members, etc. on the website, but I can't find anything that resembles a charter or some sort of set of bylaws.
If we're going to have transparency, I believe the organization's operational rules should be readily available for anyone to read.
Additionally, given the recent hiccups, I'm seeing some merit in amadeus' discussion of membership voting. It makes sense to me, based on personal experience. A few years back, a local convention split into two entities. I went to the meetings for both as a "member". Both groups had the members assist in the design of the bylaws, voting to pass the final copy and electing the board members.
It seems to be a much better method than having prospective board members send their resume to a central point where only a handful of individuals within the organization can have any sort of access to the choices.
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Post by amadeus on Feb 6, 2012 8:22:02 GMT -5
Taken from the NY Dept. of State's website: www.dos.ny.gov/corps/nfpfaq.asp#whatisanfpAre There Any Special Responsibilities Associated With Forming a Not-for-Profit Corporation? The existence of the corporation begins upon the filing of the Certificate of Incorporation with the Department of State. After the corporate existence has begun, an organization meeting of the initial directors designated in the Certificate of Incorporation must be held for the purpose of adopting by-laws, electing directors and the transaction of any other business. (See Section 405 of the Not-for-Profit Corporation Law.) The corporation is required to keep correct and complete books and records of account and must keep minutes of the proceedings of its members, board of directors and executive committee, if any. The corporation must also keep a record containing the names and addresses of all members, the number of capital certificates held by each member and the dates when they respectively became the owners of record thereof. (See Section 621 of the Not-for-Profit Corporation Law.) In addition, a meeting of members must be held annually for the election of directors and the transaction of other business on a date fixed by or under the by-laws. (See Section 603 of the Not-for-Profit Corporation Law.) Not-for-profit corporations formed for charitable purposes may be required to register with the Office of the Attorney General, Charities Bureau, Registration Section, 120 Broadway, New York, NY 10271. The telephone number is (212) 416-8415.
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Post by forbesmb on Feb 6, 2012 8:33:19 GMT -5
Ah. I'm assuming that, by "charter", you were referring to the regulations that apply to all Non-Profits under New York law, for which I thank you for sharing, amadeus.
My other question, at this point, would be... do we have actual bylaws or have they not yet been written? Do we have regulations defining the responsibilities and limitations of the positions within the organization? The latter question is important in light of recent events... having a definition and stating what a position can and cannot do, as well as providing the checks and balances for that position would go a long way in preventing this sort of internal conflict.
We're all here to change the "rules" of the system, but we're going to need some rules of our own to make sure we can actually reach our goal.
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Post by amadeus on Feb 6, 2012 10:13:39 GMT -5
Now you're starting to see the big picture. Oligarchy rules only until the blinders are removed. That, in one sentence defines the entire OWS movement. There is never a reason to have just a few people in charge of anything, whether it be a committee, a corporation, or an army. Everything is subject to checks and balances, just as our forefathers set it up when they wrote the Constitution.
While I agree with Christopher Carney's analogy of democracy as being "two wolves and a sheep arguing over what to have for dinner", with consensus everyone assumes at least a partial responsibility for the success or failure of an idea. If you agree that it is vote-worthy, and you lose the vote you still had a hand in the creation of whatever was voted upon, and ethically you should support each other in its growth. Some days you get the chicken, and some days you get the feathers. That is democracy in action, but not an excuse to turn a blind eye or walk away from what is right and fair.
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rap
New Member
Posts: 25
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Post by rap on Feb 7, 2012 5:02:38 GMT -5
"If there were hundreds of members on the board, there would be a change in direction every week, imo." AGREED, A GOOD DECENT WELL MEANING PERSON(1) IS REQUIRED AT THE TOP. LET'S SEE, WHO IS THAT NOW?
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Post by forbesmb on Feb 7, 2012 8:18:33 GMT -5
The answer would be, "No one."
I'm sorry, it doesn't matter who it potentially could be or how much of a benevolent dictator they could be... you cannot promote a single leader for an organization that purports itself to be for the people. At that point, we may as well just shut the whole thing down, as the National General Assembly would mean very little in comparison to an individual who could simply say, "No, you didn't write it the way I wanted."
I'm not singling out names, so any reader who feels I am meaning this to be focused at any particular individual, I'm sorry, but you're wrong. I'm against any "supreme leader" for the 99% Declaration.
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Post by hendrimike on Feb 7, 2012 8:36:16 GMT -5
agreed, matt. there is no leader. committees of volunteers make decisions and if money is needed for decisions they go to the board for that. all volunteers, if needed, can be on committee. if people want to view this as a takeover, then yes, it was a takeover of the people so that all people are involved on a much greater level.
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