Planks of the Communist Manifesto

[christophercarney]

I post this here just as a general reference and source for discussion on just what exactly the 99% stands for and should stand for going ahead in the future. Some of these were very surprising even to me. This is not an endorsement of any idea nor is it a rejection of them. It can be proven that some of these already exist in America.

For everyone's reference, the Communist Manifesto was written to attempt to describe how a society that begins capitalist in nature would eventually transcend to a socialist regime, and eventually to a communist one.

Here are the 10 planks:


1. Abolition of private property in land and application of all rents of land to public purpose.

2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.

3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.

4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.

5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.

6. Centralization of the means of communication and transportation in the hands of the state.

7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state; the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.

8. Equal obligation of all to work. Establishment of Industrial armies, especially for agriculture.

9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the population over the country.

10. Free education for all children in government schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc. etc.


Of particular important for myself is #5, as it calls directly for a Central Bank, which we have had since 1913 with the Federal Reserve system. Also noteworthy is #2, which we also received in the same year in the establishment of the federal income tax.

[tdrivertom]

Just because it says you can "talk about anything" here, you don't have to take them up on it, christophercarney!

I got a little tired of you on Facebook starting those long and meandering "conversations" just so you could dazzle us with your brilliance. The Communist Manifesto? Are you kidding me? Just because there was one point out of 10 that seemed to have something to do with one of your pet topics, the Communist Manifesto has nothing to do with the proposed "Petition for the Redress of Grievances."

[blake]

The Communist Manifesto read it once in high school. I found it boring and badly written. I don't think there anything in it that useful to us. Though I'm completely anti-Communist, I am a rationalist who believes useful knowledge can come form a verity sources. I can't see any usefulness for it here though. I have it on good authority that the communist also breathed air, drank water, and ate food would you like to see any corollaries there. Beside who doesn't agree with free education or anti-child labor laws , this belief doesn't make us all communist. It only makes the communist just a little less wrong.

[christophercarney]

Wow. What's the matter, did I touch a nerve? You guys need to relax. As I stated before this was posted for general reference only. If you don't want to talk about anything here that is perfectly within your right. But do not tell me there is nothing here pertaining to the 99%D and at least a few of the grievances, because I will prove you very wrong.

You presume a lot tdrivertom. You should caution yourself in the future. I also got tired of you with your head down and head in the sand approach when it came to any debate or discussion, other than to complain about the leadership, which thankfully I decided to stay out of. Just when I think you've come around to rationality, you once again sink deep into your comfortable retreat. Btw, you are the only one who thought my conversations were long and meandering, but at least you were the only one with the guts to say that to me. So I applaud you for that. Good luck to you.

It is these kinds of responses that cause me to question what I am doing here, because the desire to learn/share is sometimes sorely absent. Instead, it seems to be more important to put the beat-down on someone who challenges one's own ego.

[blake]

Okay, prove us wrong. I like to read your posted even if I disagree with your points. I find I learn something each time. My point was that saying that one thing looks like the another is not a prof that they are related, that just a matter of logic. As I said I'm a rationalist and I believe in all paths to knowledge, I have a copy of the Communist Manifesto on my self right now. I just don't see any use for it here.

I also know that the people who disagree with our movement will use anything to discredit us, though we're only talking intellectually about the Communist Manifesto who want to give them the ammunition. Besides I am anti-communist, sorry its a cold war hangover thing form my childhood.

By the by people say my post are too long too. I like to make my point.

[christophercarney]

Blake, I never once made the inference you are making, namely that just because our society shares some of these planks that that makes us Communist. It is an interesting corollary only.

So you don't find it interesting that the 5th plank calls for a central bank, not in the least, particularly after the thread and our discussion on the Federal Reserve grievance? I find it fascinating to say the least. I didn't know this until earlier today, hence that's why I shared it.

But since you say there is no value to it here let's just leave it at that. I need to go back to my pet topic, as trivertom puts it, anyway as I sense much resistance coming to this grievance.

[blake]

I'm Interested in what I think and what you think and fact that the communist may think something similar doesn't change tenner of my thoughts. Just because I like vodka and the communist really like vodka doesn't mean were the same. We just share an affinity vodka.

I wasn't inferring that you were a communist either. Anyone who speaks about the free market the way you do cannot be a communist. I would be fine if you were one, but I know your not. I wasn't trying to that project on you.

[tdrivertom]

This is my point, Christopher Carney. If you are against the idea of a Central Bank / The Fed...just discuss that. It's one of the suggested grievances. Don't throw the discussion into a sideways "conversation" by bringing up something like the "Communist Manifesto.

You know what I'm talking about too! You have a history of doing that on the Facebook pages. You would start some topic and it would go on for over 100-150 posts. And what did you get resolved by that? This is why I don't "debate" on forums or Facebook pages. Naturally we are all going to have slightly different opinions about things. My goal is the find the common ground that we can agree on fairly quickly and move this whole 99% Declaration process along. What is the prupose of starting a thead that ends up in a never-ending "debate." Certainly you can't be too thrilled either by what's happening within the ranks of the 99 Percent Declaration group.

[christophercarney]

I am discussing it tdrivertom, along with a handful other others at this time. You know this because I know you've read every grievance since this forum went up. What's wrong with parallel discussions? I am not so single-minded that I cannot carry on different conversations concurrently.

I am sorry for the inconvenience of having to wade through 100-150 posts. I am sorry you see it that way. One of the topics ended up being over 800 posts (no I didn't start that one), but I can't tell you how many people were later appreciative for all of the information learned and shared.

And if you remember, tdrivertom, we had to wait a very long time before first the web page discussion section was created and then some more until this forum was constructed. So there was no other outlet at the time most of those "long and meandering" posts were created. Remember how many times we were promised it was coming? But then again you knew all this already so I'm beating a dead horse.

Your choice to debate or not to debate is entirely your own. So finally here we have the proper forum and you still want to control every single topic brought up. Good luck with that. And I hate to break it to you but the central bank debate will never be completely resolved. I can say this because we're still debating it 235 years after the inception of this country. And just like you said on other posts regarding healthcare and the environment (which I agree with you by the way), there are some topics that will only result in a never-ending debate. If you want to make a motion to remove all grievances from the list that cannot be resolved by majority consensus please do so because that will remove central banking and my work here gets much much easier. Also add tax reform to the list because that's another one that everyone can agree needs to be done but nobody can agree on how to do it.

You have great insight into may of the topics and grievances here, but if you wish to continue with the personal attacks it will not serve you nor I nor this movement any good. Consider this the last time I choose to address you again, and even addressing you now goes against my better judgement.

And finally, no I am not thrilled by what's going on with the ranks. How could anyone be?